GRAN APOSTASIA TALMAGE PDF

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I found that it left me wondering about a lot of things. I have often heard LDS talk about the apostasy and restoration but I had never thought about those concepts in terms of actual events and dates.

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To me it seemed more like a nebulous shift from the One True Church of the apostolic period to a gray area and falling away during the Middle Ages. So, I was surprised to learn that, according to Talmage, the falling away happened much earlier—with the first evidences of it occurring in the NT text itself.

Obviously, as an Evangelical, an apostasy would have dramatic ramifications. It would mean that I am not a part of the real body of Christ. I also have often struggled with the concept of church structure and wrestle with the idea of whether or not Evangelicalism has it right.

Thus, his book gave me much to ponder. Few would dispute that the period of the Dark Ages was an atrocious epoch in the history of the Christian Church. The selling of indulgences, the immorality of the papacy, the political strong-arming of governments and the bloody crusades are just a few examples of corruption in the church. By the time Martin Luther posted his 95 Thesis there was a desperate need for reform.

By any measure, the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages definitely fits the bill for an apostate church. If this alone were the teaching of the LDS church, we could all agree and go home.

Yet, the LDS church makes a much broader claim. The apostasy was total. Many Evangelicals would argue that their church model more closely resembles the New Testament church than the LDS model. So, on the surface it might appear that a simple comparison would prove which was correct. But the issue delves deeper. For LDS, the priesthood was lost during the apostasy; therefore a restoration was needed to restore that authority to men again.

From this viewpoint they see the Evangelical church of today as having desended from the Catholics and totally without proper authority. The alleged apostasy was not restricted to the Old World. Talmage asserts that there was a falling away in the Americas by quoting I Netphi And the angel said unto me: Behold these shall dwindle in unbelief.

And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. The parallelism is significant. To Talmage the American Indians were a loathsome people in a degraded state—very similar to the apostatized Christians that Joseph Smith encountered.

One might be quick to forgive the blatant racism—but what about the implications for the Christian churches? Can the same voice produce both racist slander along with an accurate prediction of a fallen church?

Why should I overlook the racism involved in the claims of apostasy in the New World and yet take seriously the claims of apostasy in the Old Aopstasia What are the evidences for this apostasy? Talmage argues that gfan can be derived from the New Testament alone. Yet, his vocabulary makes it obvious that he is no objective theologian.

Note the LDS wording:. In this passage Simon the Socerer attempts to purchase the power of the Holy Spirit with money.

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LA GRAN APOSTASIA – James E.

Text for this conference wpostasia found here. As a former Presbyterian and Methodist minister, I thought he was able to appeal apkstasia well to Protestants who had never considered the idea of a universal apostasy. Yet, he failed to address the Biblical issue. As a professor of religion I expected him to be able to expound the Apoetasia.

He presented an argument similar to Talmage—that the authority of the church was vested in the Quorum of Twelve and in the Seventy and that it was subsequently lost. Temple ceremonies were too sacred to be written down. Where would the temple ceremonies have taken place? Keller also presented an argument that I have heard frequently used against the LDS doctrine of the restoration.

He offered as proof of the need for a restoration the fact that early converts to Mormonism were looking for such an event.

Or, it could also indicate that Smith was simply following the pattern of what was popular at the time. But, another religious movement that was sweeping the country during the same time period was the Second Great Awakening. When Joseph Smith shared the story of his first vision he indicated his confusion over this matter. My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, apostasoa I might know which to join.

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No sooner, therefore, did I get possession galmage myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong —and which I should join. I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: Although historians may argue about the actual time frame of the first vision, the fact remains that Joseph Smith was aware of the revivals among the protestant churches.

This was an era of circuit riding ministers, and huge increase in evangelism and conversions. As in the case of all revivals, personal holiness and prayer were both key components and aposatsia of apistasia revival. While it is easy to white wash history, picture the difference between the revivals of the Protestant churches in America and the early LDS movement.

Some might accuse polygamy critics of having Apostaasia notions about sexuality.

The Great Apostasy

Yet, during the revivals of the same time period, emphasis on sanctification would have been particularly strong. As out of place as polygamy might appear in the religious landscape of America, it was particularly glaring in light of the revivals of the time. As a Christian I can testify that I have wpostasia witnessed the work of the Holy Spirit in a profound way—both in my life and in the lives of other believers.

And that guidance may come through Buddhism, it may come apostasua Hinduism, it may come through Taoism, any other number of major religious traditions, Islam, what have you. Is this truly the way God is? Did not Jesus say He was the Way. And why preach Universalism if the One True Church is the only venue for priesthood authority? Central to the doctrine of the apostasy is the New Testament references to such a falling away. In fact, the New Testament is full of warnings that such an event would occur.

The actual word apostasia is used just twice in the New Testament Acts While it seems clear that an apostasy has been predicted by the Bible, the question is when will this event occur? According to the Ggran, the great falling away occurred during or immediately following the apostolic period. Yet, the Scripture predicts that the falling away will occur during the end times. Considering the fact apstasia some years have elapsed since the apostolic period it talmmage unlikely that this is the date of the apostasy predicted.

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When the above passages are taken in context, further evidence for this is seen.

Let no man deceive you by any means: The temple was destroyed in 70 AD and there is no record of an anti-Christ setting himself up in the temple prior to that time.

This event has yet to occur. While it is clear that an apostasy is predicted, it seems apparent from Scripture that the event is connected with the end times. The most important question to consider is whether or not Jesus ever planned to remove His priestly authority over the church. Authority is absolutely key to any discussion of the apostasy and restoration. Yet, in the above passages there is no indication that Jesus ever relinquished His authority as head of the church Eph.

He would never abandon the remnant of true believers among even multitudes of religious hypocrites. This topic has left me with much to ponder as I reflect on the state of the Evangelical church and the claims of the LDS church.

But I do wonder, do LDS consider the claims of the apostasy and restoration?

Mormon scholarship has somewhat moved beyond Talmage. Why does an apostle have to be a scholar to get things right? Are scholars more informed than apostles who speak with God?

I am simply following the apostssia of Brigham Young. What he had to say about himself and Church Authorities gfan vastly different from the light you attempt to cast them in.

The way you speak about General Authorities is no different from the way the Evangelical Church treats pastors, deacons, etc. They are good men trying their best to do the work of the Lord, and at times they may be right and at other times they may not be.

In addition, the recasting of General Authorities does a huge disservice to the whole idea of the restoration. First, in Acts 8, Simon the socerer is asking to buy to the power to confer the Holy Ghost on others. He is not asking for the Power of the Holy Ghost. Considering that Philip did not have the power to confer the Holy Ghost, as indicated by the fact that they sent for Peter and John to do so, it is very logical to say that Simon was seeking to purchase the authority that Peter had, or in other words, the Priesthood.

No, the word priesthood is not used in this chapter, but it is indicated by the circumstances and what Simons was asking for. Now, about 2 Thess. The text does not say this.

What is says starting in verse two is that before the second coming of Christ both these events must take place. Continuing in the chapter to verse 7 we read that these things have already begone, but the time for him to be revealed is not yet. Thus Paul is telling us that the Falling Away had already started. Nothing said in apoostasia article should be laughed away, nor should any source be ignored. However, the questioned put forth here are simple, and are questions that are answered in the Doctrines of the LDS church.

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